Let's talk about comments!

[littlebutfierce]

Firstly: fic_promptly, a DW comm similar to the comment_fic on on LJ, has recently started! Given that a few people have said commentfic helped them dive into writing fic, I thought it was worth a mention.

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Last month factorielle posted about a survey dealing with comments & fanfic; both the original survey & the discussion in her journal I thought had some interesting things to say.

Reasons why people don't comment on a story? Lots of people gave "Nothing positive to say" or "Difficulty expressing myself" as a reason. Nearly 40% of the respondents comment on less than 1 in 5 of the fics they read.

Writers, on the other hand: over half of them said they are motivated by comments (25% are extremely motivated).

Hm. Bit of a mismatch there, possibly?

I know I'm not unusual in saying that I LOVE comments. One of my friends says she doesn't mind not getting any because with the hit counter on AO3, she knows people are reading it anyway, but me, I just think that could be people starting the story & clicking away.

I don't think getting few or no comments makes me think that something I wrote is bad, per se--more like it just hasn't reached the right audience yet (though I'm not suggesting I'm a flawless writer...). Maybe that is just my arrogance speaking! But in general, I feel very much, lately, like I'm going to write what I write even if no one reads it, but on the other hand, a story is written for an audience & sometimes it is frustrating to feel like I've missed having one for whatever reason.

As far as leaving comments: sometimes I can't elucidate exactly why I like a fic, & leaving "OMG I LOVED IT!!!!1" comments feels fake or like cheating, somehow, after a while (despite the fact that I appreciate getting those kinds of comments). Maybe I feel like not being able to leave eloquent comments reflects badly on me as a reader & a writer, both? I dunno. I will happily leave comments both for old stories & stories that have already gotten a lot of comments--some of the discussion around that survey surprised me, as it never occurred to me not to do either.

So. Comments! How do you feel about them: leaving them, & getting them? Are you bummed out if you don't get a lot? Do you not care? If you've been writing fic for a while, has the importance of comments changed from when you first started? Has the number of comments you leave changed as a result of the number of comments you get & how you feel about that? Do you think comments are more weighty when you're a new fic writer? If you left comments before you started writing fic, have the types of comments you leave (& the frequency of comments left) changed since you started writing yourself?

Comments

[whitecollarfan]

I try not to care if I don't get comments but it's not easy. Hell sometimes I think getting flamed would be better than silence - at least the I would know someone had some type of reaction to my fics. On the other hand, I do think that because most of my stories are under 500 words there isn't much to comment on...

Of course I'm also horrible at leaving comments on fics. I try to leave them on the stories I do read... but to be honest I don't actually read a lot of fics in my current fandom - I prefer gen but most fics tend to be OT3 (there's a canon married couple that mostly everyone loves too much to break up so the default pairing has become the couple + the other main character). I'd read the canon married couple but even that's hard to find - when it exists it's usually nc17 and that's not my cup of tea ...

[littlebutfierce]

Yeah, it's hard when you feel like you're just telling your stories to the oven (er, to badly use a fairy tale image)!

I don't tend to read fic that's outside my fandoms, so yes, I can empathize w/having a limited number of fics to comment on (& then pairing & style preferences obviously winnow that down further).

[dagas_isa]

Comments are a double-edged sword for me. On one hand, I think it's awesome to know that someone is out there and appreciating what I've done, and I really do like to either see someone responding to my fic or offering constructive criticism. But on the other hands, some comments can get...kind of bothersome, I guess. Like they'll criticize me for going with canon instead of fanon on one point or they'll say something like, "I usually don't like x" when the fic is intentionally not x at all. And then it's like...okay, I must not have conveyed the point very well because you are obviously missing it.

*is an ungrateful author*

I write for myself, and I generally don't expect any comments, which makes the good ones coming in seem good. That plus hits/bookmarks/faves at least keeps the ego up.

As for leaving comments, I'm pretty bad at leaving comments on fic. I used to try to review everything that came up in my fandom, but it's difficult to think of anything that's substantial, honest, and encouraging.

[littlebutfierce]

Heh, I have had fics somewhat misinterpreted by people, but then that makes me wonder if it's just a normal reader response thing, like, hey, people read things differently sometimes based on their own experiences & mindsets. Or I have a crappy reader on my hands. Or they have a crappy writer on theirs!

I think I write for myself (well, if I didn't, I wouldn't write femslash in my main fandom, ahaha) but at the same time, I really love when people do appreciate it & get it, heh.

Sometimes I don't comment b/c I think a story is just so badly written there is no way I could feel honest leaving a positive comment, or even a constructively critical comment (w/o turning it into an essay of its own). Mostly I don't comment b/c I have difficulty coming up w/something heartfelt & honest (I feel cheesy!).

[skund]

You've made some great points there. From experience simple stories get the most comments, because people are happy leaving a quick "this is sweet/cute/nice :)" comment. Things that are more complex, dark or angsty tend to get less comments.

I used to be really caught up on comments, waiting eagerly for them after I posted fic, rankings stories by the number of comments they've gotten. But I've relaxed a lot now. :P I write what I think works. If other people think it works too, that's awesome!

I've been too busy this year to keep up with fandom much - when I do read a fic it's often months after it's been posted and I'll generally only leave a comment if I really adored the story or if I know the author. If I read a fic within a week or so of posting I'll almost always leave a comment.

[littlebutfierce]

Hm, good point in your first para! It feels less burdensome as a reader to just say, "AWWWW THAT WAS SO CUTE!"--this is very true! It's the more complicated stories that make me want to leave a comment that is worthy of them--that shows that I've paid attention & particular things grabbed me as especially awesome.

[cathstar]

I learned a long time to not care about getting comments on my fics. But the occasional comment makes me feel good :3

I try to leave comments on what I read, whether it's good or bad. Sometimes, it's hard because I get too lazy to type and think about the fic itself. It's like my English 105 class; read and analyze.

I'm just too lazy for that, but I try.

[littlebutfierce]

It seems like a lot of people (self included) feel like just leaving a quick "I loved this!"-type comment often isn't good enough, but writers all seem to say that they love them. So maybe we all need to get over our reticence. :)

Though I do love longer comments, too--sometimes when I leave them I'm not particularly doing analysis (usually I'm not!), but I like to point out a phrase that really grabbed me or a detail that made me laugh b/c it was so true.

[erebus_x]

I'm terrible at leaving comments on fics. I read a lot of fan-fiction, so, while I sometimes like stories, I don't necessarily find them the most memorable. That also said, for the fics that I find memorable, I don't want to be the "OMG I LOVED IT!!!!1" as you mentioned, but I also don't want to nitpick to give constructive criticism ("You should really put two hyphens together to substitute as a dash."). For most occasions, I generally just keep silent; however, I do break this rule when I see a beginning writer and try to encourage his or her first attempt(s).

When I decided to start writing fan-fiction (again), I came to the conclusion that I was going to write for my own pleasure. Basically, to Hell with what people think. I don't really like comments and criticism, to be honest. When I receive criticism from people, I feel as though I need to correct my work accordingly and it makes it feel to me like my published work was just a draft and my readers were just beta readers.

Speaking of beta readers, I've never had one (although I sometimes feel as though I should have one), because I write too inconsistently and in too many fandoms; it'd be impossible for me to expect a beta reader to follow my lunacy.

I really think that the amount of comments a writer receives is somewhat proportional to the amount of comments a writer leaves. At the very least, it's good advertising for your works and attracts new readers. I feel as though writers shouldn't be so dependent on comments ("No news is good news."), but I also see the importance in the writer-reader communication.

Good post, littlebutfierce.

[littlebutfierce]

Hm, you could ask for a beta for general flow, tone, consistency, that sort of thing, just knowing that you wouldn't get a canon check. Although you wouldn't have to have the same beta readers for every fic! You could have different ones for different fandoms.

Not saying you need one! Just saying that if you do feel like you should have one, as you said you sometimes do, don't let your wide variety of fandoms stop you from getting one.

[kate]

I'm still addicted to comments, even though I've been writing fanfic for years now. I want comments desperately, and I watch my inbox for them like crazy the day after I post.

I also never used to comment on fic, for two main reasons. One, I'm picky as hell about my fic, and was snobbish and didn't want to comment on stuff I didn't like. Two, I came to a lot of stuff late, and it felt weird leaving comments so far after the fact.

Now that I've been writing long enough to have a back catalog, I realize that both of those reasons are terrible reasons. I now comment on any fic I read, regardless of how old it is (and have gotten some really excellent responses from authors when I do that) and I comment on every fic I get to the end of, even if it's only 'this is so great!' because I tell you, I love those sorts of comments like pie, so I know damn well most other people want them too.

I just realized that it was unfair of me to want bunches and bunches of comments and yet not comment on anyone else's stuff.

[littlebutfierce]

Wow, that's impressive that you comment on everything! I know comments make writers happy (although not all writers--see upthread) so I do try to leave them when I can, but... I dunno. When I finish a fic & think, "so what?" or I didn't like it, I don't tend to comment--sometimes I try to think of something specific that I did like, even if overall a story left me cold, & post about that. Maybe I should do that more...

[maerhys]

I just want to ditto this post. ♥

I actually fell off on commenting this year to fic that I read for all the usual reasons (work, work, home, etc.) and I found that I received less comments. Perhaps it is just my primary fandom, but they seem related.

[littlebutfierce]

Interesting! I don't feel like the amount of the comments I get is related to the number I leave--though I don't know if that's b/c I'm in pretty much all small fandoms (so the amount of people who would potentially be interested in various fics across fandoms would be smaller). Or, ha ha, maybe it has something to do w/my writing, but I am totally not going to go down that road. ;)

[pebblerocker]

I have not ever written fic for public consumption - love the idea of this community by the way! - but I read and I do try to comment. Yes, it's hard not knowing what to say, or feeling that I don't have anything original to write, especially if there are comments on the story already that say things much better than I could have put it.

When I post art, though, I love comments and don't care when the same person leaves almost the same comment on several pictures, so I do think writers are probably the same as me.

[littlebutfierce]

Oh yes--when there are comments that address just what I want to say beautifully, I feel like I'm just fumbling in comparison. I could post & say that I agree w/the whole other comment but that feels cheesy. Then again, it would probably make writers happy!

As far as leaving multiple comments for one person on different works: I think it makes me feel more anxious about sounding fake or clumsy. Or... slightly creepy? Like, hey, I'm totally going to post a comment on EVERY SINGLE FIC YOU HAVE POSTED. Ahahaha... although I take your point about not minding if you get several positive comments that are quite similar from the same person!

[vanessagalore]

I had to completely leave my fandom for a year because the whole commenting/challenge voting thing got me so down. It felt like a lot of pressure to conform with a couple people in the fandom who were very, very vocal about their preferences, and politics just got out of control, with people begging for votes in challenges and competitions (or maybe actually cheating), etc.

To be fair, I fed the flames at the end, when I got incredibly frustrated with one particular commenter, who always insisted on the last word if I defended some of my characters' choices. It was stupid on my part to let the person get under my skin, especially since I was wrapping up a two year effort that meant a lot to me—I should have just said, "thanks for reading" and scrolled by.

I don't think most fanfic writers really want concrit, even if they say they do. And I know how embarrassed I am when somebody doesn't comment, chapter after chapter, but then makes a big point of commenting to tell me about a tiny nitpick (or a squick they have that I inadvertently triggered—although you gotta wonder why someone is reading chapter one hundred and twelve if they're so repulsed). It's embarrassing to have those nitpicky comments still lingering on my journal, long after I've fixed the typo or other error.

The solution could be that negative criticism should be private (in a PM or an email) and positive comments can be posted for all to see. I finally got so sick of the nitpickers on my epic (about 500K words, really a crap-ton of research, multiple beta-readers, etc., etc.) that I asked people to refrain from commenting if their only purpose was to nitpick some tiny error I'd made.

I do love it when someone writes a lengthy review of my chapter, with thoughtful comments, even if they didn't like everything. And I encourage this kind of commenter to go ahead and nitpick away, because I know they're reading the story the way I'd like it to be read, rather than just searching for an error to point out.

I try to respond in kind to my comments: if someone just says "I loved it!" I'll respond, "Thanks for reading and commenting." But if they bring up points, I will address each one, sometimes spending a great deal of time writing a considered response, often with quotes from canon or my fic. That kind of interaction has led to some long-lasting friendships with other people in my fandom, as well as reciprocal beta-relationships.

As a reader, if a fic merited it, I used to write long comments, really trying to focus on the writing, rather than what the characters did. However, I started to feel like I was flapping in the wind, when I didn't get responses to my comments from the authors or didn't get reciprocal comments on my own fic from those writers (for whatever reasons). I do think a reader has a responsibility to leave comments if they read more than a paragraph or two. I also feel that an author has a responsibility to respond to comments, at least to say thank you for reading.

I'm trying to decide right now whether I want to get back into fandom. I suspect I'm really too thin-skinned to post fanfic. And now, with the latest brou-ha-ha at the evil eljay, I've locked comments there and directed people to come over here (and they seem incredibly reluctant to do that). So I don't know what I'm going to do.

[littlebutfierce]

Oooh, thank you for this weighty comment!

All my fandoms are small enough that I guess they can't support the challenge voting thing you mention, so I only have the vaguest idea of what you're talking about, but it does sound rather ripe for drama!

I can definitely see how getting a one-sentence comment about a typo on an epic fic would be frustrating. OTOH, I'm not sure I agree necessarily that negative feedback should be private (though note I say this as someone who has not yet had any public negative feedback!). I feel like contacting someone privately feels like more of a commitment, like maybe you are opening yourself up to more of a dialogue (or in a worst case scenario, trolling/harassment if the author gets angry). And sometimes you just want to comment on a fic, right?

Also public commenting can generally be anonymous; I'd imagine given the nervousness a lot of people feel about giving criticism generally, plus any additional fannish political considerations, might mean less feedback if people had to give it with their username on it.

Re: comments that focus on the writing vs. what the characters did--I struggle with this! Comments on the writing are one of the things I feel least skilled at giving (& then I get sucked into the whole "oh no, my comment sucks, I'm not going to leave one" thing). I try to at least indicate a specific line or two I liked... but as far as comments on the plot, I feel like, well, the writer had to come up with that plot (or, if it was a prompt, the details of how the prompt was enacted), so they deserve some credit for that too. :)

I feel like there's a tension between the idea that a reader has a responsibility to leave comments on anything they read through versus the idea that most writers don't want concrit. How do you leave comments on stories you didn't enjoy? I mostly avoid leaving comments on stories I think are bad, unless there is one bright shining moment that I love, & then I comment on that. Maybe there is a better way for me to do it!

Re: people being reluctant to come over here--some of them will change, with time; some of them won't. At least that's been my experience. And I suspect now that LJ has made a very late-in-the-day apology & promise to fix things (at least until the next mess-up), sadly the flood of people over here will reverse to an extent.