WIP challenge: day 30 check-in!

[littlebutfierce]

We're almost to the end of this month's challenge! How is the penultimate day going?

Poll #9324

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 14

View Respondents

How's the fic going today?

View Answers

Fantastic!
2 (14.3%)

All right
3 (21.4%)

It's... there
5 (35.7%)

Not very well
2 (14.3%)

DON'T EVEN ASK
2 (14.3%)

& what have you done?

View Answers

Wrote
7 (50.0%)

Edited
5 (35.7%)

Posted
2 (14.3%)

Sent to beta
2 (14.3%)

Researched
3 (21.4%)

Refreshed canon
0 (0.0%)

Took a break
4 (28.6%)

For discussion: This post talks about how the "like" culture (embodied by Facebook or retweeting things on Twitter or even just analyzing your site stats) can maybe make people focus too much on what other people want, instead of what they want to write/create.

Some people swear up & down that they don't care if they ever get a single comment on their fic, they're just writing for themselves. Other people say that they'd like to write something specific (different from their usual stuff) but their readers wouldn't like it -- & therefore they won't write it. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle -- what's your relationship with feedback on your fic like?

Comments

[dhae_knight_1]

Just wanted to dance in here and say that I finished my fic! \o/ *dances out again*

[lacerta]

Yay, congratulations!

[sharpiefan]

Woohoo! Congratulations! :D

[littlebutfierce]

Yay, congratulations!

[snowynight]

Congratulations!

[crowdog66]

Congratulations!!! :) Here's to many more completed fics in the future.

[sharpiefan]

I like comments, but who doesn't? I have written fics that haven't got any comments, and I've written fics that have received comments in one place (such as LJ) but have received no comments when posted somewhere else (such as fic journal here, or AO3).

I think an author, any author, ought to write primarily what they want to write - that's why Bernard Cornwell wrote the Sharpe series, to give an example: he wanted to read a series of books set in the Peninsular war, but there weren't any at the time, so he decided if he wanted them, he'd have to write them.

It's a bit different for us as fic writers, in a way, as we're not constrained by the financial pressure of writing things that people will want to buy to read. But we still have that need to write for an audience, and in some cases, to write for an audience already familiar with our work.

If you (general you) switched fandoms, you'd end up writing for a whole new audience - yes, still fans, but people who probably haven't come across your work before. Would you write the same sort of fics for that new audience that you wrote in your previous fandom?

I think everyone wants to know that people enjoy reading their stuff - or why would we waste the time and energy posting it? So I think everyone likes receiving comments, even if those comments aren't any more than 'I liked this!'

Popular writers have more people reading and therefore more comments in reply, which can put other writers off posting their stuff. And that's a shame.

[littlebutfierce]

Would you write the same sort of fics for that new audience that you wrote in your previous fandom?

... yes, yes I think I would, ahahaha. Because I tend to be a one-trick pony in terms of the tropes that grab me so hard I want to write fic about them. Hm... sometimes the tropes get porny, sometimes they don't, but in terms of emotional tone & content etc. I am, er, fairly similar across fandoms, heh.

I admit I am skeptical of people who declare (loudly) that they don't care if they don't get comments. For all I know, some people genuinely mean it! But... if I've poured my heart out into a fic (not just in terms of working hard on it, but also if it's one that I do feel like a lot of my own heart & soft spots are in), it's natural to want to know that it affected someone else too.

[lacerta]

Oh, this question is relevant to my interests. I'd love to say that I don't mind whether or not people read and/or like my stuff, but the truth is that it does play a big motivational role for me. With the last long fic I wrote, I basically pulled myself to the finish line by thinking about the big, shiny community that I would be able to post it to.

So, right now, I'm toying around with this plot bunny for a fandom that - well, to say it's obscure isn't exactly right, but I haven't yet found it in the fic-writing, art-drawing, icon-making kind of form. And to think that there's no one to read this fic doesn't exactly get me excited about investing a lot of time and nerves into the necessary world- and character-building. I mean, not that I don't get something out of it myself. I absolutely am excited about this story and these people and the "canon" if RPF has such a thing as canon. I just... Maybe I'm spoiled by being part of large fandoms. As it is right now, I get more enjoyment out of making and sharing things than just playing all by myself.

Then again, since nobody else is going to write this pairing, I might just do it myself anyway.

[littlebutfierce]

Wellllll... I live in small fandoms, so my perspective is different, heh. But I've written stuff that is unpopular even w/in the small fandoms b/c it grabbed me, & yeah, I'll never get fic for that pairing/character/etc. if I don't write it myself. I think those times are the closest I've come to feeling like I have to write a fic. It can be really satisfying even if response is low! & once in a while I even end up pulling people into reading stuff they haven't before. :D (I think I have converted at least a couple of people to my current OT3. \o/ )

That doesn't mean I don't wish my fics sometimes got more attention. Just... sometimes it doesn't matter (as much, cough) if there's an audience.

So if that fic is burning up inside of you, I say it deserves to see some light. :D

[crowdog66]

Wrote ~1000 words, and posted Chapter Two of "Lost in Translation" (Garak/Bashir, NC-17).

I care very much if I don't get comments on a fic... but I've learned that many people read and don't comment, so I don't take lack of feedback as a sign that a story is totally bereft of an audience.

Honestly, I don't write what I think people will like: I write stories that strike me as being worth telling, in what I hope is an engaging and exciting way. So far it seems to be a winning strategy, even when I've dealt with hot-button topics like abortion -- tell a good tale, and readers will follow (and feel inspired to share their reactions in a comment).

Comments are fuel for me, like chocolate or coffee: they inspire me, they encourage me, and they keep me going when the going gets tough. They reassure me that the hard work I put into writing isn't being wasted, and to me that's very important as a motivator. So I constantly let people know that I appreciate them taking time to type those words in the comment box. :) I guess you could say I'm a comment addict: after I've posted a stand-alone fic or a chapter of a WIP, I'm checking my email for post notifications. (Er, anybody know of a good 12 step program I could get into...?)

[littlebutfierce]

so I don't take lack of feedback as a sign that a story is totally bereft of an audience.

Yeah, this is definitely true. It can be depressing when there are tons & tons of hits & not one kudo, though. ^^;;;

I don't think I write what people like necessarily either (well, looking at the types of pairings/characters I write, yeah, mostly not). I wonder sometimes if the fics I do write about popular characters are totally motivated by a plot idea or by the hopes or more feedback -- I'm pretty sure it's just wanting to write the fic, but I guess one can't ever be totally sure!

Also, I think this was the first Fanfic Flamingo I ever made -- your last paragraph made me think of that, hahaha.

[proseac]

I've learned that many people read and don't comment, so I don't take lack of feedback as a sign that a story is totally bereft of an audience.

This is so very true. I've had stories on Fanfiction.net where it's always the same 3-4 people commenting every time I post a chapter, but when I look at the stats there are thousands of hits per day. The percentage of people who actually bother to leave a comment is extremely small (although probably larger on a site like this than on Fanfiction.net since we likely have a generally more *cough* mature audience. I take tremendous solace in this fact, regardless.

It strikes me that of those who bother to comment, the vast majority are those among us who are ourselves writers. We know the loneliness of the comment-less fic, and so whenever something is even remotely praise-worthy or even merely enjoyable, we drop a note to the author to show our appreciation. The casual reader who is not a writer doesn't understand how much that little bit of reassurance can mean. JMHO.

I guess you could say I'm a comment addict: after I've posted a stand-alone fic or a chapter of a WIP, I'm checking my email for post notifications. (Er, anybody know of a good 12 step program I could get into...?)

If you find one, I'd like to join too...Hee!

[dhae_knight_1]

I know the stats on reader-to-feedback ratios are abysmal, but I try to leave at least a small comment unless it's a BNF and the comments sprawl over 5 or 10 pages.

I know that I sometimes feel like I'm shouting into the void with my fics, and it can be hard to know whether anybody even reads them, never mind enjoys them. So it's nice I have at least one fic I see relatively frequently recced on a ficsearch. Even though even that one only has about a dozen comments. And I know that's the one most people read.

[littlebutfierce]

Oh, I know that shouting into the void feeling! Sometimes it's really motivating to be writing a fic that you really want to write, but... it's also good to know that someone else likes them. ^^;;;

(Heh. I don't think any of my fandoms are even big enough to have 5 pages' worth of people to comment, but I take your point!)

[littlebutfierce]

I've been trying to get some editing in all night but have barely managed to do a thing & it'll be bedtime soon. Sigh.

I mostly write rarer pairings or characters, so I think that makes me a) less expectant of feedback to begin w/ & b) possibly even more appreciative of it when I do get it? I love comments & kudos; I love knowing that someone likes my work. But OTOH I've written some stuff that's gotten v. little response, just b/c it's not what fandom is looking for (though obviously one can never discount the idea that, well, there might be a quality issue w/the fic!!). But some of those underloved fics are my favorites among the ones I've written. I'm glad I got them out there.

[proseac]

Watching the # of comments can drive you nuts if you're not careful. Awhile back, I started posting a WIP that was a sequel to a previous, rather lengthy fic that I'd been especially proud of, and which had been quite well received. The sequel, not so much. It started off with roughly the same number of comments as the original, for the first chapter or two, then steadily dwindled, to the point where I was lucky to get one or two per chapter. I thought something was wrong with the story, and I made the mistake of posing the question in cyberspace. The response I got (and only one individual bothered to respond, BTW) was rather harsh, especially as concerned the characterization of one particular OC. In fact, it was so harsh that I lost all confidence in my writing ability for a time, and pulled the piece off the web.

Were there genuine issues with the piece? Absolutely. But time and distance from it have made me realize the major 'problem' (if one can even call it that) was not with the way I'd written that character, but simply that she wasn't everyone's cup of tea, because she was antagonizing one of the most beloved canon characters who so many people seemed to think could do no wrong. I disagree - I see flaws in that character (that's what makes him so interesting to write!), and my OC's main purpose in those scenes was to highlight those flaws and to show an alternative point of view. I now realize that just because people didn't want to accept that, didn't make it wrong, or bad.

I haven't touched the piece for several months, even though I'd originally wanted to re-tool it and post it again fairly quickly. It still needs work, but the bits that my critic wanted me to change, are staying in there. *stamps foot* You can't please everybody all of the time, as the saying goes, and the corollary to that should be you can't expect multiple comments/reviews all of the time. And that's ok.

[dhae_knight_1]

Also, I think a lot of people don't read WIP's. I've stumbled over one or two lengthy ones, but I tend to forget to keep up with them, especially if they aren't updated frequently. And I've read enough brilliant-but-never-finished WIP's that I damn well want to make sure it's all there before I invest myself in it.

[enemytosleep]

Working on modly stuffs tonight (and then RL work stuff tomorrow - yay end of month bookkeeping! XD), so I won't be touching any fanfic files until Wednesday.

As for comments on fic I've written, I do enjoy them when they come in (and kudos on AO3), but if I've written something, it was because I felt like writing it and had the time to (be it a prompt challenge or some idea that struck me while I was working). I don't have a series or a regular following, so I guess I also don't feel any pressure to write certain things to please them.

Exchange fanworks I feel a bit differently about because I've specifically spent time working on something tailored for a specific recipient (fic, art, whatever). I've felt a bit burned a few times when the recipient didn't seem interested in what I'd put together for them by not replying at all. :| Thankfully it's not happened often, but those were instances where no comments bothered me.

As for the generally dismal hits-to-feedback ratios out there, I did start fma_review to try and encourage more review leaving in my main fandom.

[littlebutfierce]

Oh dear, it's terrible when an exchange recipient doesn't reply! Even if they didn't like it, a simple thank you is not, I feel, optional. :/ (I know of a few cases where someone's had major horrible life things happen & had to cut out a lot of online activity/interaction to cope, but... I am cynical & kind of wonder if cases like that are the exception. Certainly some of the bemoaning I've seen on this topic has come from people whose recipients continued to post merrily in their own journals w/o acknowledging the fic. ^^;;) Once I didn't get a thank you from my recipient until after reveals, & they said specifically that they waited until reveals to comment. Which made me wonder, had I ended up being a BNF, would they have liked the fic more?!?

Heh, I write things that I want to write, but that doesn't mean I don't hope that other people will appreciate them too. :D (Especially when they are personal -- I wrote a fic about getting over self-injury once, b/c 10 or so years ago that was me, & it was SUPER cathartic to write. It's gotten a relatively large amount of hits, but not too many comments/kudos -- I hope that at least some of them are people who were in the same position who got something similar out of reading it, but... couldn't say so out loud. ^^;;)

That review comm is an interesting idea! It's funny how sometimes I come across my fics recced or bookmarked on Delicious or something & I had no idea the person in question liked my fic (a bit weirder when I know them, even).

[sylvaine]

Ahaaahahahah. Comments. My relationship with them is... complicated. Because, like, I'm ratehr aware that I'm not a particularly good writer? And I used to not think this. And then I would post fic on FFnet and be all o.O Why do I not get more reviews? :( And then I'd try to convince myself I was being fucking stupid and I wasn't that great and anyway it didn't really matter, as long as someone enjoyed it. It was.. partially successful. And then, when I first really realised that yeah, my stories kind of sucked, I didn't write fic at all for quite a while, let alone post any.

... obviously, I got back into writing. But I don't post anymore with the expectation of getting comments. There's a couple of different reasons for this, basically boiling down to a) I'm used to getting no comments thanks to podfic, and b) there tends to be MONTHS between me finishing a fic and me actually posting it. Partly because I am the SLOWEST when it comes to editing, partly out of self-defense. Because I know I won't get many comments, and I know I'll be hurt by that anyway if I post something right after writing it. Whereas the way I handle things now, by the time I post fic, I already have quite a bit of emotional distance to it, and can thus be entirely zen about comments.

(... and then comes the weird part, where on some level I actually prefer not to have ANY comments. Because oh my god if people commented then that means they read it and I'm really not that great a writer and oh my god they read my shitty fic noooooo /o\ Also because oh my god I now need to answer them. D: (Most of me, at this point, is telling those parts of me not to be ridiculous OH MY GOD.))

[enemytosleep]

If it means anything ... it's been my experience that a lot of the people commenting on FFnet are a lot younger/have a lower user-engagement level than other fandoms groups. The only nasty comments I have ever received on fic have all been on that site, and have all indicated that the reviewer completely missed the point of the piece, either by not finishing it or by just not understanding things at all (do bear in mind my total review count for any fic on any site is pretty low). Of course I'm aware that I'm perfectly capable of writing terrible fic, but I think the "this sux" crowd tend to hang out there more than at other sites. So I don't really worry much about what goes on there.

As for feeling insecure on quality: do you use a beta reader? I have definitely improved my skills after letting other people read and critique my work (I invite brutality, but I know there are others who prefer more gentle feedback). FFnet has a network of beta readers you can search for by fandom, though I've always felt a bit safer checking within LJ/DW groups, as I find the members generally more mature and helpful.

And as anyone on my f-list will tell you, I always say, "fandom is for fun!" If you enjoy writing, then write! Don't do something for free in your free time that stresses you out or otherwise makes you unhappy! FFnet is the worst reason to get an ulcer/aneurism/nervous disorder!

[bay_alexison]

Bleh the past weekend haven't done any writerly stuff because of drama with a couple of my friends and getting stressed over that. -_- Hopefully later tonight I hope to get some editing done.

Like everyone else I love comments as those make my day sometimes but I don't mind if I I didn't get any. I admit for my Big Bang at first some ideas I wrote so that I can impress a certain audience (for the fandom there's one popular pairing and one group that are fans of that pairing are pretty picky XD; ). However, I then decided to forget about them as my Big Bang is most likely not going to be their cup of tea anyway and that's fine.

[enemytosleep]

Sorry about the friend drama. :|

You know I am familiar with the same circles, so yeah, please don't worry about impressing people. Just enjoy the process and any good feedback that comes afterwards (there are back buttons on your internets, people, if you don't like a take on a pairing, HIT IT @__@).

[laceblade]

I finished my fic, got it beta'ed, and posted it on AO3! Yay!!

It's only 1,600 words, but this is a pretty big accomplishment for me.
So, that was sort of my January goal, I guess.
Now I need to figure out how to get myself motivated to work on my massive fic. My year-total goal is 75,000 words, too. 73,368 to go, ^^;;


I absolutely love comments. I'm trying to get better about leaving them on other people's fic.

[insignia]

Congrats! ^_^

[xpaperplanex]

I've been working hard to not care about how many comments I get or who's commenting, but it's tough. When someone who's been commenting steadily suddenly stops, I always feel like it's me and I did something wrong. And when one fic gets way more comments than another fic, I'm constantly trying to figure out why.

I don't understand the people who say "just write for yourself". If I were just writing for myself, I wouldn't be posting it online. The whole point of posting is that I want other people to enjoy it. Then again, I also don't believe the people who say they don't care about comments at all.

One thing that helped was at the beginning of last year, I posted the first chapter of a fic that I had zero clue of what the reception would be like. It was not my usual style, and it was pretty (extremely) unique within the fandom. I figured people would be all "okay... weird" and walk away. So I posted and went off to Kyoto the next day and didn't check my messages again until late the next night. I opened up my email and there were around 100 new messages (many favourites and alerts as included). So I stared in shock for a while, then started going through them. The majority were positive reviews, and the neutral ones were curious as to where I was taking it and wanted more. There weren't any negatives. Anyways, that story was the most popular thing I've ever written, and I think it's also the best thing I've ever written. But I figure that I'll never top it, so there's no point in worrying too much about review counts.

In a way, it's kind of depressing, because I'd like to be able to write something equally good again, but I don't think I can. It's also cheering, because hey, I had a super popular fic that people are still rereading and enjoying.

[littlebutfierce]

When someone who's been commenting steadily suddenly stops, I always feel like it's me and I did something wrong. And when one fic gets way more comments than another fic, I'm constantly trying to figure out why.

Oh. Oh. That game. I know that game. ^^;;;; It is hard to resist! & then I'm like, "Oh, maybe they're just really busy & they didn't see it or they don't have time for fic-reading right now since work is so busy..." &... you know, maybe they read it & didn't like it. & that's... not fun. But it's okay! I can still write. I have somehow survived people not liking my work. (Uh, that sounds really sarcastic, but I don't mean it to be: sometimes it feels really hard!)

But I figure that I'll never top it, so there's no point in worrying too much about review counts.

That's an awesome way to look at it. :D

[snowynight]

I love feedback in any shape, but I try not to let a lack of them influence my mood. After all readers are fickle and I don't usually have idea of the "in" kind. I do feel sad when a fic doesn't even have much hit (I post all my fic on AO3) and genuinely want to know why.

I'm still basking in the glow of finishing my Very Difficult fic, and I wrote another too. Now I need to figure out the sequel to my Very Difficult fic and whether I want to submit it to any bigbang.

[littlebutfierce]

Yeah, posting & getting silence or near-silence can be really hard. ^^;;;

But HOORAY for finishing your Difficult Fic & even getting another one done too!! Good luck w/the sequel!

[lacygrey]

Whoopie! I was writing a fic and someone went and prompted their wish for that exact thing on a meme. I'm so pleased, now Ive got somewhere to put it and several people who want it already.

I guess this kind of answers the discussion question too. Sometimes I write things on themes that might appeal to others, but it tends to be an accident. I don't think I adhere to fashion to get read. I think that would make me unhappy.

[littlebutfierce]

Heeeeee, I love when that happens w/prompts! It's brilliant to know you've got an audience. :D

I think when I end up writing popular themes/pairings it's... often an accident? Or a one-time occurrence? Heh.

[jesseszen]

When I first started writing fanfic on LJ 5 years ago I was very much into the feedback and the praise. I went through phases and I admit I was influenced to write stuff that I knew would be well received. The praise sometimes bordered on adulation and even, in a couple of instances, led to relationships. Thankfully, I came to my senses and wrote just what the spirit was moved to write. However, a couple of times I gave in and offered 'alternative endings'. To revisit a story that was finished sort of made me feel like I was writing fanfic inside of fanfic. Pretty strange.

I don't write much anymore. Maybe that's why I'm here - to get back into it. I know I used my writing as self therapy while going through a hard period in my life. It definitely worked the charm.

Thank you for providing this interesting topic to converse about.

[littlebutfierce]

Aw, good luck getting back into the writing! I hope you're able to find some fulfillment w/it (& yeah, I've definitely used writing as therapy!).