Dealing with large casts

[graychalk]

Hiya everyone! I'm still fairly new to this community, but I've really been enjoying how helpful and encouraging everyone is here. I thought I should come out of lurkdom a bit and say hello. :)

I'd also like to bring up a topic that I hope could get some kind of discussion going, because I've been batting this stuff in my brain for months and I keep going back and forth on the best way to approach this. So... without further rambling, how do you guys deal with writing large casts - especially ones where there are quite a few key characters that would be important enough to warrant their point of views too?

Do you tend to prefer switching between POVs by a break of some sort, or do you brave the omniscient POV and hope it doesn't turn into a mess of head-hopping? And if you do dedicated switches between POVs, when do you make your switches? Within the same scene or do you make it a point to only do it when it's a new scene? Or something else entirely?

I would really love any input on this - it's driving me a bit nuts because I can't seem to find an approach that fits for my fic. :(

Thanks all!

Comments

[dhae_knight_1]

I... Slightly disagree with your reasons for 1st person. It's risky, of course it is, but if you feel like you've got a really good handle on the character, it can be incredibly rewarding, as well. I've read several 1st person POVs which didn't have the exact character voice I was expecting, but where it worked, none the less.

If it works, it can be really good. If it doesn't, it can really suck. But that's true of any technique, yes? :-)

[amaresu]

I'm not saying don't write 1st person, that would be more than slightly hypocritical (hell my last Cal Leandros fic was 1st person with Cal as the protag), just that there are downfalls. I personally know people who just won't read 1st person pov fanfic. It's a thing. I also know people who refuse to read 2nd person and I'll try just about any fic if I'm remotely familiar with the fandom if it's in 2nd person.

If it works, it can be really good. If it doesn't, it can really suck. But that's true of any technique, yes? :-)

Precisely my point. But much like with 'funny footnotes' you see it done badly much more than you see it done well. And this can make people wary about trying fic with that particular technique.

[dhae_knight_1]

Urgh. Count me as one of those who just can't get into 2nd person narrative. "You look at this." "You do that." And all the while my brain is going; "God damnit, author, stop telling me what to do!" XD

Yeah. I've mostly stayed clear of FF.net because so much of it seems to be writers who are either really young or really inexperienced. I only go there on specific recs, and even then I've been disappointed. And, y'know, their classification system sucks, also... ;-)

[rebecca2525]

I find there are two ways to do second person: you-the-reader (Choose-your-own-adventure style, or as in If on a Winter's Night a Traveller), and you-the-character (the scifi novel Molly Zero does this, for example.) But somehow people always talk about you-the-reader POV, so maybe I'm just weird making this distinction? I don't mind the latter at all, as I don't feel like I'm the addressee of the you.

[dhae_knight_1]

I dunno. Maybe my brain is weird, because it always interprets 'you' as being adressed at me, the reader. Whereas 'I', oddly enough, never engenders the same response.

Hmm... I'm sure there's some really interesting psycho-linguistic study in that, somewhere... ;-)

[rebecca2525]

I guess it's similar to reading a letter that isn't addressed to me or overhearing a person talking to someone else--in both cases "you" isn't me?

But I've heard lots of people saying they don't like second person POV because they don't like being told what to do, when I feel most of those stories aren't addressing me, so I guess people read second person differently.

[amaresu]

That's interesting because I've never felt that distinction. It's always been you-the-character to me. Can you perhaps elaborate on what makes the difference? I've never read If on a Winter's Night a Traveller (although I've been meaning to) so I don't know what specifically makes that different.

This idea fascinates me.

[rebecca2525]

I guess it's about breaking the fourth wall? It's not very common. Winter's Night explicitly addresses the reader. I don't have my copy with me, but the style goes somewhat like this: You are about to read If on a Winter's Night a Traveller by Italo Calvino. You have read Calvino's last book, and you liked it, or at least you found it intriguing enough to pick up Winter's Night when you saw it at the bookstore. You settle down into your armchair. Take your time to find a comfortable position. Make sure you have a bottle of water within reach so that you don't have to get up again halfway into the first chapter. Or maybe you prefer to drink tea? Put the kettle on and choose a fine brand of tea [...] Now, dear reader, are you ready to delve into the first chapter?

Then there are first person narratives where the reader gets addressed occasionally, something along I hope you, dear reader, will understand the predicament I found myself in!

As I said, I don't think those are very common (outside of choose-your-own-adventure books and computer games). I'm just always a bit confused when people say they don't like second person POV because they feel like being ordered around, when personally I feel like most second person stories don't address the reader with their "you". But people seem to perceive this differently, I guess.

[amaresu]

That's interesting. I think I need to move this book up my To Read list.

[amaresu]

I think my love of 2nd person developed from my belief when I was about 8 or so that 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books were the best things ever. I read every single one I could get from my library. And I mean, I would go through and do the various paths and then read from cover to cover to make sure I didn't miss anything. So my very first encounter with 2nd person was very positive and I never really developed the distaste for it so many people seem to have.

Also one of my all-time favorite Highlander fics is like 30,000 words of 2nd person-Methos-gen fic and it's awesome.

(Not sure where FF.N came in...)

I find the Pit to be hit or miss, but fandom based. Certain fandoms it really is a Pit of Voles, others it's the best place on the internet to go. It really depends on the fandom in question. I wish it had a better classification system and search capabilities too. Also the upload interface is terrible and the entire reason I don't post over there anymore.

I find it helps to get one or two fics that you really like and then check out what those authors have favorited. You can usually get a decent good to crap ratio out of that.

[dhae_knight_1]

I loved those books, too! My dad, of course, caught the tail-end of that whole 'they'll turn your kids into satanists who'll axe-murder you in your sleep', so that was a bit of an uphill battle to get him to realize that that wasn't true... XD

I wouldn't say I have a distaste for it, per se... Can we call it a disability? Second person challenged? ;-)

[amaresu]

I'm so glad my parents never caught that particular thing, or ignored it entirely, either or. Did it go hand in hand with the D&D will 'turn your kids into satanists who'll axe-murder you in your sleep' thing?

It's okay to dislike 2nd person. I won't judge you for it. ;)

[dhae_knight_1]

Mostly I think he just lumped the whole thing together under the heading of 'role-playing' and thought it was all the same.

Whew! I'm so relieved! :-D

[amaresu]

Ah, I've never understood how role playing is evil. I mean at what age does playing make-believe become satanic? Like eight or so? Or is it the grown adults shouldn't play games things? This is a topic of eternal confusion for me and I think I like it that way.